How many times do I have to say, “If you’re old enough to date and marry, you should be the one handling your dating life”? Apparently, I haven’t said it enough times, because again I’m told that someone’s shadchan is “dealing with the boy’s mother.”
Firstly, he’s not a “boy”—unless you are referring to the fact that he is acting like a minor child who can’t make decisions for himself. If he is in college/graduate school/working, then he is a young man, or man, or fellow, but not a boy! Boys don’t go on dates, and Mommies shouldn’t be getting involved either! Some Mommies have been known to interject their own feelings and think they’re helping their child, when they may be eliminating many wonderful, eligible young women for their son because the Mommies are telling the shadchanim what they are looking for in a daughter-in-law, not necessarily what their son is looking for in a wife. It’s true; I’ve heard the stories.
Do the “boys” ask their Mommies to get involved because their mothers can ask the questions that would be inappropriate if he asked the shadchan? Guess what? If it’s inappropriate for “the boy” to ask, then it’s certainly inappropriate for a third party to ask. It doesn’t matter that “we’re all girls.” And what surprises me most is when the mother actually asks the inappropriate question and doesn’t think anything is wrong with it, or isn’t embarrassed to do so. One quick example: During a visit to my OB-GYN, when I was pregnant with my son, the doctor told me that mothers of “boys” call him all the time to check that the girl their son is being redt to is healthy and able to have children. The doctor hates these calls for many reasons. He said that he tells the mother to have her son ask the woman that question on the first date, and he’ll get the answer.
Now I’m hearing that the boys don’t get involved and the parents don’t want them involved because it is considered untznius. Oh, puh-lease! If that’s the excuse you’re going with, fine, but does the question asked above fall into the tznius or not-tznius category? And don’t forget, it was asked by the mothers of “the boy” to a doctor. Ahem, ever hear of HIPAA? And no, there are no shadchanim exemptions from HIPAA.
Below is an email I received a few weeks ago from a mother of a MAN. And she is telling me of her firsthand account of this foolishness.
Goldy,
I’m the mother of a single man who is having problems with shidduchim.
Many shadchanim he’s met with have been giving him a hard time over the fact that my husband and I are not 100% on top of his singleness and dating. They are disappointed that he’s using dating apps and speaking directly with shadchanim. I’ve been told it’s untznius for a single boy to handle resumes and make his own dating decisions himself.
Our son lives in his own apartment and has worked in a company for the last few years. This all means that he can pay his own rent. My husband and I are doctors. I only mention that because shadchanim frequently call us while we are at work and busy, and they decline our requests to reach out to our son directly, each of them claiming it is untznius for them to talk with him directly. We both have frum co-workers whose children are having the same exact problem with shadchanim. This untznius policy seems new. It wasn’t around a few years ago when my other son was in the parshah. In the biography of Rabbi Mordechai Gifter, it’s written that the late Rosh Yeshivah didn’t involve his parents in his dating life until shortly before his engagement. What’s so different about today’s generation of boys? How do you expect them to become responsible husbands and responsible fathers if they depend on their parents to make their dating decisions, especially decisions about dating? I know of quite a few men who have introduced their parents to the young woman they want to marry or have just proposed to—they brought their parents the final product, so to speak. These men spoke with the necessary parties, made decisions, and decided this was their bashert, and then told their parents all about her. I’m not saying to leave parents out altogether, but nothing is wrong with that.
Is it untznius for a single male who lives on his own and works, which includes making decisions during his day, to communicate with shadchanim and girls’ references on his own? Or is it more untznius or appropriate for his parents to leave their patients briefly in order to speak with shadchanim and references who likewise lead their own busy lives?
Why is it so inappropriate for our son to simply handle shidduch inquiries on his own and leave us out of the picture until after the fourth or fifth date, or whenever he decides to tell us about whom he’s dating?
Sincerely,
Dr. J
Thank you, Dr. J., for your email.
I agree with you 100% regarding the fact that your son can and should handle his dating life. All of these mature adults who feel they’re ready for marriage should deal one-on-one with their shadchan and not go through their Mommies and Tatties. Personally, I hated when I was dealing with a shadchan and was told that she or he would call the “boy’s mother” to find out information or to answer a question. “Boys” and “girls” don’t date. Men and women date. It’s odd enough if a 35- or 40-year-old man is living at home with his parents, but the parents taking control of his dating life? Does his mom choose what suit he should wear to work or what lunch to eat? No? So, the man is trustworthy enough to dress and eat for himself, but not to make a life decision—now we’re in a whole other ballgame. Do these mature adults make decisions at work, or do they call their parents for help? It’s embarrassing for an adult to even say, “Speak with my mother about this.” The shadchanim who tell you it’s not tznius to deal directly with the single are very old-fashioned or maybe even a bit loopy. This is a modern world. Shadchanim can communicate through phone, email, text, Zoom, and they aren’t asking to see the single to ensure that what the parent has told him or her about their child is true—that’s why pictures are “required.” But that’s a whole topic I won’t get started on now.
I admire both you and your husband for caring so much for your son’s dating life to write in, and I am in awe of the professions that you both have. I can understand any parent being called away from their job if their young child was injured in school or something like that, but to ask doctors to put their jobs and patients on hold so you can speak about their child’s dating life is ridiculous, and it’s sad that those shadchanim don’t realize it.
I always preferred when the man I was redt to dealt with the shadchan one-on-one rather than go through a third party, especially their mother. The single can speak directly to the shadchan, tell him or her what they are thinking, what they want and don’t want, instead of having the mother add her personal feelings into the mix as well. Too much broken-telephone communication, if you ask me.
If this is the first or second date the young man or woman has ever been on, I can see how it’s easier and less awkward by having their parents involved. But after that, it’s time to take off the training wheels and let go of the seat. Your child will either stay on the bike or take a tumble. But even so, they’ll get back up again. We learn from our mistakes. Step back. Ask anyone in the secular world if their parents are involved in their dating life—even if they use matchmakers. The answer will probably be, “My mom? Are you crazy? No.”
You and your son aren’t doing anything wrong. It’s not “not tznius” to have a single speak and meet with a shadchan. I think it’s very necessary for the single to deal directly with the shadchan. The shadchan can also get a better sense of what the single is looking for if they actually speak. Think about it: Does your son want to get involved with a young lady who has her parents running interference and acting as her representatives for something as serious as dating for marriage? Maybe some young ladies don’t mind because they’re doing the same thing themselves—the parents should meet to discuss the possibility of their children going out on a first date. Ridiculous! But dealing with the parents now may give you a clue as to what they will be like as in-laws, and how their daughter may constantly turn to them for advice or help.
Your son sounds like a mature young man who is more than capable of handling his own dealings with shadchanim, and any shadchan who doesn’t want to deal directly with the single should have his or her head examined. I’m not speaking about Chasidish people here.
The fact that shadchanim don’t see anything wrong with calling you, a doctor, while you are at work, in a hospital or office, to discuss your son should tell you what type of people they are—and to run in the other direction.
There are plenty of singles handling and being in charge of their dating lives, and nothing is wrong with that—mature adults making mature decisions. I dated many young and old men. My mother was the go-between for about five or six of them, and that was in the very beginning, before I got a handle on this great shidduch parshah many are stuck in.
Continue on, and I wish your son hatzlachah. He will find the right woman without you needing to step in. I’m sure of it!
Hatzlachah to you all.
Goldy Krantz is an LMSW and a lifelong Queens resident, guest lecturer, and author of the shidduch dating book “The Best of My Worst” and children’s book “Where Has Zaidy Gone?” She can be contacted at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. Goldy is an experienced dating coach offering private sessions. To inquire, contact her at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..
