Two letters about the same topic from different perspectives.
Dear Goldy: I’m not from a rich family. I grew up pretty average. I have a good job, but I’m not rolling in the dough. I have rent and other bills to pay. I try to be smart about what I spend money on. I’m not cheap. To me, cheap means walking an extra three blocks so I don’t have to spend the money on a Muni Meter.
I’ve been dating for years. I know some of my buddies go to the fancy restaurants on the first or second date. Their thinking is: I may not like the girl, so I may as well have a good meal. I can afford a nice restaurant, but why when I hardly know someone, should I spend over $100 on an evening? There is no nice restaurant where appetizers (even shared), entrees, drinks, and dessert costs less than $100. Usually, my first and second dates are a lounge or a Starbucks, museums (free admission), or – depending on the weather – a walk in Central Park. If I care enough to take a girl out a third time, then I start spending some of my hard-earned money. I’ll take her to a restaurant or to a gaming zone where I’m constantly feeding the token machine. This is when I’m interested in the girl, hoping it will go somewhere.
My friends say I’m a “cheap-o” and girls won’t want to date me if they think I’ll take them out for free samples in Costco. They can understand not going to a fancy place for a first date, but on the second date, I have to step up my game. I never gave this much thought. No one ever complained about me being cheap or frugal. No shadchan said that was a reason a girl didn’t want to go out another time with me. Life is expensive enough without spending hard-earned money on someone I may never see again. By a third date, I’m willing to invest money. Are my friends right, or am I?
Efraim
*****
Dear Goldy:
It’s no secret: Girls get dressed for a date or at least recomb their hair or reapply some makeup before a date. The guys just show up like, “Hey, I’m here” – whether they come from work or home or wherever.
The last few guys showed up looking semi-decent and then took me to a lounge, cafe, one brought a game, and we sat in a hotel lobby playing it. I remember being taken twice by two different guys before Rosh HaShanah on apple-picking dates. Yes, they told me to dress for outdoor activities, but c’mon! How many apples are we actually taking home? Yes, I get it, he wants conversation, but why not have it over a meal after a hard day of work? Why am I rushing home for a 7:30/8 p.m. date, changing clothes or bringing a change of clothes to work just to meet up for a game or a drink? I end up eating frozen pizza or a muffin when I get home. I get it, you don’t want to spend top dollar on a first date, but sometimes guys do this on the second and third date, too.
I don’t want to sound like I’m snobby or expect more for me from a stranger, but I feel like guys are trying to get away with spending as little on a date as possible. But they still want us to look our best because they want a “pretty girl.” Yes, eventually, they will spend money. But am I supposed to hang around until date number five or six until he finally decides to go someplace nice?
Ambiance is a big part of dating. Seeing someone in a coffee shop or a paint shop or in the park, time after time, is okay; but is it so wrong to want to be wooed a little? I think every woman deserves a little woo. I don’t need someone breaking the bank with me (or any other girl), but sometimes it’s like, “Really? You got away with spending less than $20 on a date.” Let me see you in the lighting of a night restaurant. The date is usually set for dinner time. Am I so wrong thinking that the guys are trying to get away with spending as little as possible on dates?
Karen
*****
Thank you, Efraim and Karen. (I answered each email separately, but I’ll combine both responses below.)
Here we have the case of the same situation seen from “the other side.” Both are not wrong, and both are not altogether right either.
I have heard from many men that they don’t want to spend a lot of money on a first date because that’s just it – they don’t know who this woman is, so why should they spend a lot of money on the date? It makes sense. If he wants to be a big spender and get a steak out of the date, that’s his call, but does he have to do it for the stranger? No. But then again, the woman is doing her best to impress because, let’s face it, the men do want a woman that looks good. So, while the women prep for the date wondering what’s to come, is it wrong of them to be upset when they are taken to a hotel lobby and being underwhelmed? No. She was getting dressed for a date and, in her mind, it meant going someplace nice and hopefully eating if it was a dinnertime date. (PLEASE NOTE: This does not apply to all dating men and women. But I’ve heard the argument enough times, I’ll address it again because I wrote about this a few years ago.)
Efraim, I understand your reasoning. I can also understand your friends looking out for you because the single community is tight and small knit, even if it doesn’t seem like it. Women and men talk. “Have you gone out with _____? I was redt to him/her.” Your friends probably don’t want you to get a bad reputation. You do not have to explain your dating plan to anyone. If it works for you, good. If you get the feeling that the woman you are dating may feel as if you are being “cheap-o” because “again the date cost nearly nothing,” then you may want to explain. You’ll know it from the vibes the woman may be giving off. I think that any woman with a little seichel will realize that men pay for most of the dates and dating is expensive, so waiting a couple of times until you “spend the big bucks” is fine.
I don’t think anyone should date someone once, twice, or 20 times and expect him to be Mr. Big Spender all the time or half the time.
Karen, I hear you, sista. Been there and done that. But as was explained to me many years ago, dating is expensive. I’ve heard a few men say that they may like the girl, but they don’t know that going into it, so the first date isn’t seen as a “cheap-o” date. It is a “getting to know you” type of date. And if he likes what he sees as well as hears, because you may look good, but not many men want an air head or someone with opposing opinions on every topic, then the next date will be a better one, in your opinion. To me, spending money doesn’t equal a good date.
I remember being taken to a very expensive restaurant. I didn’t even want to order anything; I’ve never seen prices like this. It was an exclusive restaurant that only the “elite” knew about, or so I was told at the time. The dinner was fabulous. The bill was astronomical, but it was a bad date because I didn’t like the man I was with or how he was behaving.
I remember having a great time walking in Central Park once with a different man. I didn’t want the day to end. It was just him and I – and I saw it as a bonus when we went for coffee together after that. Maybe what should be discussed during the initial phone call is if the date will include food; this way you’ll be prepared for what not to expect, yet able to satisfy your hunger before the date. If you decide you want to go to a cafe, and you’ll pay the bill. Fine. Some women do that today and have no problem with it or splitting the bill. Ambiance is nice, but seeing someone in different settings is nice, too.
Nothing is wrong with being wooed, but make sure the fellow knows that that is what you are looking for. And again, on a first date, when the fellow doesn’t know if the picture they saw of you on your dating resume was from five years ago or five weeks ago, why blame them on not spending money? Like I said, money doesn’t equal a good date. Whether it’s family money or their hard-earned money, it’s theirs to spend it how they want. If they want a night out on the town before they even know who you are, great. If not, that’s fine too. Wouldn’t you have a better time enjoying something special (and possibly expensive) if you have gotten to know the person you’re with first?
Again, no one is wrong or right. It’s one situation seen by opposing parties.
Hatzlachah to you all.
Goldy Krantz is an LMSW and a lifelong Queens resident, guest lecturer, and author of the shidduch dating book, The Best of My Worst and children’s book Where Has Zaidy Gone?
She can be contacted at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..